Even Numbered Groups...

I thought it was interesting how many of the characters were grouped in even numbers, most prevalently in groups consisting of four members.

There are:
- the Apocalyptic Horsemen: Famine, War, Pollution, and Death
- the Them: Adam, Wensleydale, Pepper, and Brian
- the other 4 Apocalyptic Horsemen: Grievous Bodily Harm, Cruelty to Animals, Really Cool People, and Treading in Dogsh*t (formerly All Foreigners Especially The French, formerly Things Not Working Properly Even When You've Given Them a Good Thumping, never actually No Alcohol Lager, and briefly Embarrassing Personal Problems)
- the 4 Demons: Hastur, Ligur, Crowley, and Beelzebub

In even numbers of groups consisting of two:
- the two witch-hunters: Mr. Shadwell and Newton Pulsifer
- the two witches: Anathema and Agnes Nutter

I'm sure there's many more correlations, but I just thought that 6 would be alot more prevalent in the book, maybe because it has a certain correlation with 666 being the devil's symbol. I just found it odd that 4 was more prevalent instead. But hey, maybe i'm fitting it into my own thoughts, but 4 and 2 makes 6 if added together...

Just food for thought,

- Marjorie D.

Part 3 of My Edited First Blog Post: Quotation

Original Post:
http://paradisetranslation1011.blogspot.com/2008/08/individual-post-historical.html
Edited Part 1 of Original Post:
http://paradisetranslation1011.blogspot.com/2008/11/edited-individual-post-1-historical.html
Edited Part 2 of Original Post:
http://paradisetranslation1011.blogspot.com/2008/12/part-2-of-my-edited-first-blog-post.html

And now, without further ado, Part 3:

It is not surprising to explore the possibility that Milton's faith was weakening as a result of the dreary events in his life. Milton might have even not believed in God. Maybe religion was never his thing...

Fall'n cherub, to be weak is miserable
Doing or suffering, but of this be sure:
To do aught good will never be our task
But ever to do ill our sole delight
As being the contrary to His high will
Whom we resist (1.157-62).

Milton wrote these lines, and if we continue with the notion that Milton was expressing himself in his poetry as a means of addressing what he wants to say, then these lines represent how much he did not like religion. Religion was obviously a powerful tool in England back then with the Anglican and Protestant churches in disarray. Now, could he have directed those words to the Anglican church? Many saw him as a heretic. Could he have seen the Anglican church's ways of good works in order to get to Heaven, something he could have referred to those lines 157-162? Included in that phrase, the word 'suffering' could be directed to to the Protestant church who believed that faith alone could get them to Heaven? "To do aught good will never be our task" -- could he have referred that to the Anglican church, who believed that good works and faith will get you into Heaven? Did he delight himself in doing ill will by opposing both churches? He most certainly must have, considering he went against them. In order to avoid being persecuted by both the Protestant and the Anglican church, is it possible he could have probably sided with the one whose ideas were less of a threat to him?

Just exploring possible theories... feel free to comment...

- Marjorie D.

Part 2 of My Edited First Blog Post: Quotation

*Note: Most of these questions that I ask beg an answer that I'm not quite sure of yet. Feel free to respond or comment.

The following is the second part of the original blog post I had first created, which can be found in the following link: (http://paradisetranslation1011.blogspot.com/2008/08/individual-post-historical.html).
Part 1 of this edited blog post can be found in the following link:
(http://paradisetranslation1011.blogspot.com/2008/11/edited-individual-post-1-historical.html)

This is Part 2:

In Books I and II of Paradise Lost, Satan persuades his fellows with the following lines:

What though the field be lost?
All is not lost: the' unconquerable will
And study of revenge, immortal hate
And courage never to submit or yield --
And what is else not to be overcome (1.105-09)

These lines speak of fortitude and strength and the will to go on, even if the prospects look bleak. As inspiring as these lines are, I wonder if Milton might have ever seen himself in Satan's shoes. In Part 1, I spoke about the troubles of his past. Could Milton have written these lines as some sort of advice, some sort of reassuring words of wisdom that he was sending to himself -- to reassure himself that all is not lost? (He was losing everything he had; his marriage, his position in power with Cromwell, etc.) Could Milton have written those lines as a means of holding on to his faith- the belief that maybe things will turn out in his favor? Many might have claimed that he was a rigid Protestant who believed in his faith, in what the Bible had to say, but what if he was having doubts about his faith? Why else would he have written a book that seems to portray Satan as the protagonist? Satan was once a beautiful angel with the much acclaimed status and power. Milton was once well-to-do. Born to privileges and an education any scholar would have envied him for, then suddenly reduced to the economic throes of man, would he not have likened himself to Satan? If he did endow his sufferings as a part of the "Eternal Providence" of God's plan, would he not have hated it? Would he not have blamed the Almighty and used Paradise Lost as something to avenge his sufferings? Was it a mind game, with the "courage to never submit or yield"? Mentioned earlier, Paradise Lost does seem to portray Satan as the protagonist, and God as the evil tyrant who lacks mercy and forgiveness to those who has wronged Him. Like how Mike K discussed in his blog post: (http://paradisefound2.blogspot.com/2008/09/individual-cpb-entry-1.html),
Milton hated tyranny. Would crying out in pain or moping about and submitting to desperation and suicide allow him to avenge his Maker? Of course not! Has he complained about his sufferings? We'll never know. But let's just say, that doing so would have meant he lost the battle. These five lines, I thought, might have meant him refusing to succumb to the difficulties of his life, and in order to make it easier for him, would find ways to incorporate it into his literary work of Paradise Lost. With "courage never to submit or yield", would voicing these out allow him to hold on to whatever remained of his strength to defy God?

What if his faith was weakening, but he did not want to show it? This will be further expanded in Part 3.

- Marjorie D.

Responses to a Few Confusing Questions in Discussions Throughout the Semester

At one point in class during the semester, we had discussed many key topics; some about the relevancy of the Bible as well as other matters about Paradise Lost. I thought that my perspective could help others understand a little more about these questions. I grew up 10 years in a Christian school, no specific denomination, though, plus 2 years in Catholic Bible study years later. I could be wrong, but I just thought that I'd pass on what I've been taught or the little I know I could possibly answer.

- Who wrote the Bible?
Based on what I've been taught, the Bible was written by men who were inspired by God.

- Did God create evil?
In essence, evil is the absence of good, in the same way, darkness is the absence of light. God did not create evil, but He does allow evil to occur. God allows evil to occur so that free will could be exercised. Without the presence of evil, we all would be serving God not because we want to, but rather because we have to; we would feel an obligation to. God wanted us to love Him freely out of choice. The only way that could be tested is if evil is present.

- If God knew what was going to happen in the future (i.e: Man is going to sin, anyway; Satan is going to rebel), why would He choose to continue with His creation?
Possible theories: God wants to prove His power to others, especially to those who refuse to acknowledge it. The presence of evil allows His followers to remind themselves why they are on His side. People need to find out things for themselves. If people prove themselves wrong, this provides a model for others to follow, so that future generations will not make the same mistake.

- Is God behind everything that happens?
God is not behind everything that happens. It's one of the reasons why temptation exists. God wants you to come to Him, not the other way around. He wants you to find your way amidst all the chaos and materialism of the world so that you can find your way to Him. Your experiences shape who you are. Your faith in Him and your good deeds will be paid off with the reward of everlasting life in Heaven.

- Why doesn't God play a more active role in Paradise Lost?
Milton probably wanted to reason that by God playing it cool, he wants to portray that reason rules the minds of men. Milton probably means to show that God is not easy to understand, and that is why his purpose for writing the epic, is to justify the ways of God to us. Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman confirm this in their book, Good Omens, whenever they mention the ineffable plan. God has a plan for everything, but it is obviously incomprehensible for us to understand, or perhaps, too complicated.

These were just a few questions posed throughout discussions over the semester, questions I wondered about as well, and the answers provided - some were based on my understanding and what I've been taught since I was little, and others were just possible theories. Feel free to add more, or comment on anything that might seem contradicting, confusing, or ineffable. :D

- Marjorie D.

One More Thing...

Here is one more idea before I officially "sign off"...Patti briefly mentioned in class that Milton influenced many leaders of society, in particular, Malcolm X.  While I do know that Milton's good vs. evil discussion that we have also been partaking in is shared by Malcolm X, I am not sure of what else.  I thoroughly searched on YouTube and articles pertaining to "Malcolm X and John Milton" but was led to somewhat of a dead end.  Is the only relationship good vs. evil?  I know there is definitely some evidence out there supporting this claim, but I seem to be missing it.  Has anyone else found this?  I think this is definitely a topic worth looking into...

Kellie M.

Reaction to assignments this semester:

Looking back on my reactions towards the first three books of Paradise Lost, this comes as a surprise to me, but I thoroughly enjoyed reading Paradise Lost this semester.  After getting used to John Milton's style of writing and diligently working to understand the meanings behind his epic poem, I feel accomplished as well as enriched.  Certainly I could read Paradise Lost countless times again for deeper understanding, but for now, I feel as though I've gotten a lot of of it my first time through.  The discussions in class, as well as through the Common Place Blog furthered my understanding and interests.  In all honesty, however, I wish that the CPB was more of a short reaction or question towards a particular passage, rather than lengthy analyses of certain areas of the poem.  I do understand the idea behind such assignments, but I feel I could have gotten more out of the CPB had it been more of a place for class discussions and such.  Perhaps that is the nature of the blog though...I suppose we made of it what we wanted at the time and had I wanted to post a quick question or response, I easily could have.  I feel as though I didn't entirely understand the assignment through out most of the semester.  I was hesitant about posting little things so that it did not count as one of my posts, but I understand now that that is not really the nature of the blog.

I did like that I could access my group as well as class' discussions at any time, helping me to better understand the material of this course.  I also enjoyed Good Omens and the direct relationship between it and Paradise Lost, something we all spent the majority of the semester working through.  What do you guys think? - CPB: To be, or not to be?

Kellie M.

In Response to Marjorie's Latest Post:

I agree...Milton does not seem to do God justice in Paradise Lost.  But isn't that his "shtick", if you will?  We know for certain that Milton is not your most devout Christian.  In fact, he is often considered a heretic, so isn't it only natural for him to portray God as somewhat "overrated"?  On the other hand, we have repeatedly learned that Milton's purpose is to "justify the ways of God to man".  Perhaps Milton is using some sort of 'null hypothesis' here in which he attempts to disprove the opposite in order to prove was he actually believes.  In other words, maybe Milton is trying to prove his feelings towards God's inadequacy by poorly attempting to show His greatness, therefore proving his "less that almighty" status. 

It is becoming more and more evident that Milton is a man I may never understand...

Kellie M.